Adversity Isn’t the Gift. Healing Is. | Bedros Keuilian

In the first episode of The Doctor Abbie Show, I sit down with Bedros Keuilian for a powerful conversation about adversity, healing, success, and the lessons that shape who we become.

Bedros shares his extraordinary life story, from escaping communism with his family and coming to the United States in search of freedom and opportunity, to becoming a serial entrepreneur, investor, founder of Fit Body Boot Camp, and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Man Up.

But this conversation is about more than success.

It is about the journey behind it. The pain, the discipline, the healing, the self-leadership, and the moments that force us to become stronger, clearer, and more purposeful.

One of the most moving themes from our conversation was this: adversity alone is not the gift. Healed adversity is the gift. When we do the work to understand it, grow through it, and use it to serve others, it becomes something powerful.

This episode is honest, emotional, and deeply inspiring. I could not have asked for a more meaningful first guest.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The abuse and the adversities in our life can give us the superpowers? Those superpowers are on the other side of the healing work we have to do. And those 15 months of healing work that I did, the fact that I could sit here on your podcast or I could get up on stage and talk about what happened to me is a byproduct of healing.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Adversity is a gift because if you don't learn how to fight for the things you want, quit. I don't want to do this, quit. If you can't fight through that, you won't ever get to the top because you're always looking for those easier routes and easy come, easy go. Do the hard work. Just if you need to learn something, learn the skill. If something is hard, get tougher and just do it. Put the work in, put the time in. Stop complaining. Welcome to the Dr. Abbey Show. I could not think of a more perfect guest for the first episode of this show. Bedros, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Well, thank you for the opportunity, Dr. Abbey.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Well, when I think of someone that not only survived adversity but turned into a competitive advantage, you are at the top of that list. You moved to a foreign country very, very young, and I can't think of a more destabilizing experience than that. How old were you when you moved here in America?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yeah, I was uh six years old. We celebrated my sixth birthday a month after we moved to the United States from communist Soviet Union, uh Armenia specifically, and uh my dad was a member of the Communist Party and the goal was to defect, and so we did. And to come to the United States where you don't speak the language, you don't understand the culture, you left all your friends behind. And it wasn't like we came to opportunity. We knew that we would have opportunity, but we lived in a very uh humble uh way in apartments that were government-assisted living, Section 8 housing, and and so all of that destabilization, as you say, ended up becoming such a great superpower for me later on in my years, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, I um I can't imagine what that's like becoming so young and not being able to speak the language.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Um but I relate to your story of coming here and um you know I came here alone in my early twenties and I have my American dream. It was just me, my cats, and I have my white picket fence American dream that I'm still chasing.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Did you bring your cats with you?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I did bring my cats with me. Okay, just me and my two boys.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Um and you talk a lot about the American dream. What does that mean for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

You know, I think above all, the American dream is to me is two things. It really is being able to have freedom of expression, talking and representing yourself as you want to be seen. Um there's not not a lot of countries I can think of that allows you to represent yourself on social media. I mean, look, we know, especially since the pandemic, um UK, uh, Australia, like you put the wrong thing on social media and there's someone knocking on your door. And to be able to represent yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, your your desires, your fears, uh whether it's from politics or from uh a certain thing taking place like like uh the pandemic, um, and to have that fear that, gosh, if I if I say what's on my mind, someone's gonna knock on my door. That's how we lived in Armenia when you're living in a communist regime. And so to me, the American dream is really freedom of expression and it's also freedom of opportunity. That if I'm willing to work hard, find solutions to problems that the world is facing, and do something to create those solutions, that I can make something of myself. And people often tell me, well, you know, gosh, when you came in 1980, you had a lot of opportunities. Today, the American dream is dead, Bedros. It's not it's not available to us like it was to you. And I keep thinking to myself that if I were to come to America today, whether I'm my current age 51 or six years old, opportunity is the American dream is more available today, I believe, than it was when I came here in 1980. Um because the barrier to entry is lower. You know, you've got social media, so if you've got value that you can add to the world, you can use your your iPhone to create content on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and the algorithms are so perfectly designed to take your voice and your message and match it to an audience who is looking for that. And if you can add enough value, you'll build the audience. And if you know how to build a level, communicate well, and and have a sense of confidence about you and be a good orator and storyteller, then you start building trust and likability. And if you can do that, and now you can offer a product or a service, they will feel indebted to you because you gave so much value for free. Gosh, I'll I'll pay for that value. And people say, Well, I don't have the money to make uh a website and all this. Well, you know, WordPress is free.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

And PayPal will take 2.9% of the money that you're gonna charge through it. So, really, if social media is free for you to find an audience and to be able to post your knowledge and your expertise on, and WordPress is a free platform that you can have a website on and you can use PayPal to accept payment. Well, what's missing then? The barrier truly is lower to the American dream than ever before.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, I think a lot of people say, Well, it was easy for you because of XYZ as a nice escape for their laziness.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

And that sounds like a harsh approach, but I think a lot of people are just looking for excuses. You know, I I remember when I was uh an undergrad, a young student, and I would always make sure all of my essays were in at least a week early. And there was one of the other students, and she'd always hand things in late. And I remember saying, you know, it's so frustrating, why doesn't she just have better time management? And her friend was like, Oh yeah, but she's dyslexic, so she finds it really hard. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm also severely dyslexic, so I find a system.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

So everything that could be a barrier, you just you find a way around it.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Um, you can either make an excuse, which is the easier route, or you can find a route that allows you to get there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

And you you nailed it when you said people use it as an excuse for laziness. And unfortunately, laziness is promoted more than ever. Yeah. And is it's easier to be lazy, to be able to lose track of your day so much because the average American scrolls on social media, just social media for three and a half hours a day. We're not even talking watching television. Yeah, just social media three and a half hours a day. I often tell my the CEO of one of my companies, Bryce, I go, man, if I had an additional three and a half hours a day, I can create another nine-figure business that would help solve so many problems. Yeah, and so the barrier to entry to the American Dream is lower, but I will have to say that the level of distractions today are more available than before than ever. Like, okay, I came at six years old, 1980. I wasn't about to start a business at six years old. But mid-90s, 93, I graduated high school, 94. I started my first business, uh, you know, just being a DJ. And I didn't have social media to distract me. I certainly didn't have uh you know YouTube and podcasts to listen to and do what's known as tactical loitering, right? Where you feel like you're stuck in this oodle loop of information gathering. Yeah. So you're well, I'm tactically gathering information. Can you just take one piece of information and do something with it? You know, people know so much about stuff. So I do believe that like my my time, television, by 11 o'clock, all the televisions are they're they're done showing the shows. Yeah. Today you got a millions of channels, you've got so many social media platforms, you have so much distraction, then you have so many experts telling you how you should do whatever it is you're trying to do. Yeah, that I will have to say that the distraction level is high, but the barrier to entry is low.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, and that's the thing too, the distractions is not just information, it's misinformation.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

You know, there were studies looking at how much information on TikTok and Instagram is actually accurate, that's presented as educational. And it was like 90% is misinformation on TikTok. And all someone needs to do is present a fact confidently. Like if I say, Did you know that if you eat a tomato before bed, you'll get an extra hour of sleep? Science says. And if I say it really well, they're like, oh, I'm gonna eat a tomato. No every an hour before sleep. And people watch these videos and just pointless, mindful facts that I don't know where they came from, but they they live by those and they think that they're learning because they just pull in this information.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

You know, as a scientist, I almost feel like you should do that, you should do that study, right? You say, hey, I'm Dr. Habian. Did you know that eating a tomato, right? Or what we would we healbillies would say a tomato would give you an extra hour of sleep. And be because I I swear to you, that would go viral. And the reason is because people are so, and I say this with so much love, but I've got this I love individuals, but I hate, I hate humanity because we're always looking for the easy way out.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

The easy way out. So it's like, oh shit, all I gotta do is eat a tomato and I can get an extra hour of sleep, right? And then the comment section is gonna blow up because one, people are gonna share, oh my God, look, I found an easy hack for more sleep. So one, they're gonna share that, and then the comment section is gonna blow up because, well, should it be a seeded tomato or without seeds? And should it be a green tomato or a yellow tomato or a red tomato? And so before you know it, this thing will go viral. And as you said, so much of it is misinformation out there. Yeah, common sense is so removed that people want to be just brainwashed or brain rotted with bullshit information that adds no value to their life, but again, it goes back to distractions and laziness because then they can use that as an excuse where I was just trying to get an extra hour of sleep. Yeah, and and and the good doctor here said that that was the right method.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yep. And then I can use the fact look, I I have a PhD, trust me, I'm trustworthy, even though it has no relation to what I'm actually talking about. And then I can use this to sell my tomato seed business.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Right. And if you buy these, you'll get so much sleep, you'll earn a hundred thousand dollars more a year. Just pull the figure out and over a hundred thousand dollars a year more, you know, and people, oh, that sounds great. I'll do that. And you know, it's easier to grow a business doing that. I can take that little clip, make it go viral, like you said, because it's selling what people want to hear. Yeah, and what I found is when you teach with integrity and when you actually present with integrity, it is harder to grow. Yeah, and I call it taking the long road rather than the short road. The short road is what do people want and how can I present what they want in a way that sounds really nice? And then how can I use that to make money? And that's the the typical business plan that a lot of people go with. Um, but saying actually doesn't work quite that way, it's not as sexy as that. This is the real route, and it takes a little longer. People don't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Do you know how right you are about this, by the way? Yeah, let me give you let me give you an example, as though you don't know, but your audience needs to hear this. Uh, and you you seem too proper to say this, so I'm gonna say it for you. Uh, do you know who the liver king is?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I don't.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Okay. You guys, you guys here backstage know who the liver king is, right? No? What is the matter with you guys? All right. So, as you guys are doing your thing back there, just just liver king is this guy. He's jacked, he's got a beard, he wears like a fur hat that's made of like a squirrel or a skunk or whatever. Super jacked and ripped. And he he goes around eating raw liver and bull testicles on his Instagram, on his YouTube, and then he sells his supplement line. He says, But you don't have to eat the bull testicles and raw liver like I do. You can just take my supplements.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

And he had 275,000 customers on subscription for his supplements, and he followed the nine ancestral tenants. In other words, get son, walk barefoot, eat raw meat, etc. And Joe Rogan called him out and he said, I think that guy's on steroids. I mean, he's just jacked. Each abdominal muscle is the size of my fist, Abby.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Right? And so the liver king, this all happened like last year in 2024, kind of poured over into 2025, as he went to, I think he went to Austin to try and have a talk with Joe Rogan, because Joe Rogan had him on ignore status. But anyway, this guy's blowing up, and people are so foolish to think that I could be ripped, I could be jacked if I just take his supplements and not actually work out. And so people were on social media were calling him out, experts like that guy is on steroids, he needs to come clean. When people were interviewing him, even Logan Paul uh and Jake Paul, the Paul brothers interviewed him, hey, are you on steroids? No. Oh, in fact, I'm offended that you would say that. Well, dude, how are you so jacked, right? Eating bull testicles. Yeah. So the bottom line is that when someone infiltrated his emails and was able to find the conversation with his drug dealer, where he's ordering $12,000 a month in steroids, and then he goes on and apologizes. But there's a great example of someone he he used hard work to build his body because I can tell you as someone who formerly used a lot of steroids in my former powerlifting career, and today I'm on a on just on TRT. Um, you can't just take a crap ton of steroids and be jacked. You have to eat right, you have to lift heavy, you have to get your sleep and all that stuff. But why not share all that? Because he knew that the work, if he preaches the work, it's not gonna work. But if he just says, hey, go get some sun, walk barefoot, and take my supplements, you don't even have to eat raw liver like I do and bull testicles, you can just take these supplements. And so now his business has crashed around him. But there's always someone, as P. T. Barnum once said, a sucker is born every minute. And there's always someone else that's gonna come and fill that vacuum and take his spot and keep fooling the human population.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yep, and that's so perfect with uh the motto that I always say about if you take the long road, you'll end up further than the short road.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

You may take longer, but it's like if you get these opportunities and I can get this really big job all the way up here, but I have to push someone to the side to get it. I have to lie to get it. Oh, I'll get it. And then I'll get another one. And you you keep climbing and climbing, you go so fast. And then the other person's like, no, no, it's actually their work, not mine. So you don't get the opportunity. Or no, no, I'm not gonna sell that dream. I'll do the honest route, so I don't get that opportunity. So the the climb is slow, but you leave people feeling good. You leave people wanting to work with you, you leave a good reputation behind you. So you keep slowly walking step by step. This person's getting all your dream opportunities, they're getting everything, and it's so tempting to take that route because I want that, I want to be on that show, I want to be on that stage, but they're leaving a trail behind them of untruth and of bad reputation. Yeah. So they get those dreams, but eventually it catches up with them. Caught up with the liver king, yeah, it catches up, you leave people feeling bad. Yeah. And people who were hurt, people who feel that you've done them wrong, very spiteful. And sometimes that can come back to you. Absolutely. Or you just don't do a good job because you don't really know what you're doing, or other experts call you out. And when you take that longer road and you're just genuinely honest, it gets you further. And what I I found in my career is some of my biggest opportunities have come because I've turned other ones down or given other people credit. Where I've had this opportunity and I've said, no, actually, I'm probably not the best person for that. This person's better. Like me and my friend Joe Navarro, um, you know, he was my mentor when I was younger and we became almost like family. He will sometimes get paid work and he'll say, actually, Dr. Abby will do a better job. And I'll have people come to me for things and I'm like, actually, Joe will do a better job. And that's helped us both increase because we've helped each other. And I've had other opportunities of people who have called me to do a big event because I was just nice to them in the audience, and they just happened to be someone important or a good reputation got back to them. And then slowly I'm seeing all these other people that got those dream opportunities that I wanted and I thought I wish I had their career. And now I see the trail they've left behind, and I think, God, I'm so glad I don't have their career. Yeah. So I do think that when you take that longer road and you are just honest and trustworthy and just do the hard work. Just if you need to learn something, learn the skill. If something is hard, get tougher and just do it. Put the work in, put the time in, stop complaining. And you'll get the opportunity. When you take those shortcuts, you lose opportunities eventually.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

You know, based on, I'm just curious, based on your experience, because I'm sure you do a lot of research and you come from that research background, do you think because we live in a time of my my theory is I don't know how true this is, but because we c live in a time where instant gratification matters and getting instant feedback matters, right? Like you put up a post and I hear like the average person comes back within the first hour, like dozens of times to rescroll and see like what's the engagement like, comments like, shares like, should I take it down or not? Because we live in this place of like we need the results and the gratification now, people have gotten used to maybe seeking out the shortcuts and throwing others under the bus to get that advantage.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yep. Yeah, and I think social media plays such a huge part because we know we learn from modeling behavior. And as kids are developing, um, their prefrontal cortexes aren't fully developed yet until they're they're 25. So everything we consume creates our foundation for how we see the world. And think about now, you know, my generation was the last one that didn't really grow up super young with social media. Now, kids, they have iPads. The average child gets a phone at 10 now. It's terrifying. So while their brains are developing of, okay, what is the world like? What is my place in the world? They're exposed to social media. And the biggest thing that you see is this is what success looks like. Success is a Ferrari. Success is a private jet. You're nobody until you have a million dollars. Or buy my course, you'll get rich tomorrow. It's all this get rich quick. It's this fast lifestyle, and that's what success looks like. And this is what being a man looks like, and this is what being a woman looks like. And it's every aspect of if you don't do this, you're somehow failing at your life. And kids learn that and they consume that. And they build that foundation of, okay, well, this is what life is like. And now, if you ask kids 20 years ago, what do you want to be when you grow up? I wanted to be a rocket scientist when I was a kid. You know, and by the time I was 16, I wanted to be a professor and I wanted to be a doctor. And if you ask kids now, it's I want to be an influencer.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

I want to be paid to do nothing. You know, that that dream of what success looks like is now fed into it's this get rich quick. It's if you don't have a Lamborghini, you're nobody. And now you see, I I saw this video of um someone who used to be a friend of mine, and he said the the key to success, buy a Lamborghini. People ask you how you got it. You can sell your course. And that's that the trick to success, and this is what kids are being fed.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And as you talk about that, I could think of so many people, and I won't mention any names, but I can think of so many people that have literally leased Lamborghinis. They go to, you know, there's an airport where I near where I live, Chino Airport, and they have two hangars where they do a they'll do photo shoots in a private jet for you. And so it's like for $5,000 for half a day, you can bring your camera crew and do all types of photo shoots in the jet, walking up to the jet and all those things. And it baffles me when I see that because I realize it's the perception of success.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

And then the people watching from the outside in go, apparently that's what success is. And so if I buy their course, their coaching, whatever. And so it begins to feed the cycle. And unfortunately, as you said earlier, I don't know if we were already rolling or not, you said purpose and belonging. I mean, it boils down to that. And when you said that, it resonated so true with me. When you have a sense of purpose, like this is why what I'm here for, and this is who I belong with, or this group of this tribe that what I belong with, all of a sudden all that outside noise doesn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yes. Yeah, that's what um, you know, me and my partner have kind of built a wall around and a bubble around our life. Because people say that, you know, to be successful, to be happy, to be this, it's all of these outside things. You have to earn this much money, you have to have this kind of appearance, you you have to be doing these things, and it muddies the water. And the key to happiness, which is should be the goal of life, what's the point of living a life that looks good if living it is miserable? Yeah. And the the key to happiness is purpose and belonging. You know, it it's that purpose of are you doing something that brings you joy? Are you doing something that makes you feel useful? Are you doing something that fills you up? But you have an impact on people. You make people better. And do you feel you belong? And that can be with family, with a community, with a religion, if you're religious, or with a partner. Like I'm not a people person, I'm a person person. So for some people, their belonging is groups. For me, it's just my little bubble of my home. And that's it. That's where I belong. And if you don't protect those things, and you you have that outside noise of, oh, well, actually, for your life to mean something, you need to have all this outside things, you need to have this high life. You know, your life isn't as important as mine because look, I'm partying on a yacht, right? Are you partying on a yacht? So you think you need all those outside things, and actually you're moving further away from that bubble of happiness. And, you know, we were saying before this of people don't always have your best interest. And when people see you in your happy little bubble, often they want to break that happiness and they'll try and bring you out of it. And you really have to protect that little piece. And that's what people are doing. They want to paint this life of look at me on these yachts. And they're willing to be with partners that they don't want to be with because the partner can buy them things, they can get the nice bags, they can get the nice trips. What's the point? What's the point of having a nice bag and being in a fancy jet and a yacht if the person you're with is not the person you want to be with, that feels like another job. I think that purpose and belonging and really having life mean something is you find someone or people you belong with that make you feel whole. And doesn't matter if you start from the ground, but you build up together. And people are always looking for that, that easy way out of what can other people get for me? How can other people open these doors? And actually, if you just sit down and say, Well, how can we all build each other up? How can we actually put the work in for it to mean something? And at the end of that, that's where your happiness is, that's where your feeling of belonging and purpose is. It's not that that quick route out and that picture on the private jet or that picture next to someone else's fancy car, but that is what kids are being fed. So that's how they see the world.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yeah. And it is intoxicating to see that and to realize, okay, someone's got that private jet that they're in or that car, and they have a lot of engagement. And so I should do that too. Or if I'm in that bikini and therefore I'm getting comments, well, you're you're in that bikini and you're getting comments because you're being objectified. And so now you've lowered your quality of standards to be objectified. And I realized recently, probably a couple of years ago, uh, because yeah, we all know money is a form of currency. I always believe that time is a time and energy are the highest form of currency and then money.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Uh, but I realize these days validation has become a form of currency. And you know, there's it's unfortunate, but you can validate someone, they're willing to be broke and have likes and engagement and be broke versus have money but not be validated externally because they've lost the ability to self-validate, to be able to say, like, this is who I am, this is what I stand for, these are my standards, my expectations of self, and these things are non-negotiable. Like everything is now compromisable and negotiable for validation, which is sad.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, and we were saying before this again about having a voice. Yeah. And I think because there's so many eyes on you and everybody's looking for validation, they know if they say something controversial, it could come back to bite them. And then they can have that negative uh view on social media, those negative comments, and so much better just to say what people want to hear. Right. You know, and it is it's that easy, quick route. And I I really do think that the thing that separates the people that can be successful from the people that really, really are successful, the ones at the top, top, are the ones that they welcome the struggle. Because that's why I say adversity is a gift. Because if you don't learn how to fight for the things you want and how to push past that feeling of when every ounce of your being is saying, quit, quit, I don't want to do this, quit. If you can't fight through that, you won't ever get to the top because you're always looking for those easier routes and easy come, easy go. Same in relationships too. If you don't fight for the things you want, you lose them. And I think that struggle is the road to success. You have to learn how to just endure. And I was going through a period a few months ago or earlier this year where I was doing so many new things and I was on the road a lot and trying to learn these new skills and had so much self-doubt. And I remember um speaking to one of my mentors, Judge Shaw, and saying, like, I just feel so small and unimportant, and I don't want to do this, and this feels awful. And he said, That's the point. That's the whole point. You're exactly where you should be. Because if you last, if you keep going, you keep pushing when you don't want to, and when every part of you is saying, just give up, you're gonna be different. And I remember when I was doing my PhD, it was like I had this cloud over my head where every day was miserable, and I was tired. And I was doing my PhD while I was a professor. I was doing both at the same time. I was finishing off my final year, and I was stressed and exhausted. But I kept saying to myself, if I give up, I'll be like everybody else, because that's the easier route. And if I want the things that not many people have, I have to do the things that people aren't willing to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

How early on in life did you realize that adversity was the path? Because for me, um I'm gonna preface this by saying when your audience hears this, they're like, How dare you say that?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

My favorite phrase.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah, yeah. I would not want what happened to me as a child to ever happen to anyone.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I was both physically abused, but even worse, sexually abused as a as a young boy. And growing up, I you know, that that happened to me between the ages of four or five years old, over and over again by two older boys. And growing up, as I became a teenager, I started to sense like I almost had like some kind of a superpower. This ability to because you know, and you move to the United States, you're living in Section 8 housing, the communities we lived in were gang infested. So you're dealing with a lot of you know, yeah, people trying to steal your stuff and beat you up and threaten you. And I realized I had this ability to endure and I had this durability about me. And it wasn't until as I got into my mid-20s that I realized I think the superpower that I've had might be a byproduct of what happened to me because if I survived that and was able to develop friendships, move forward, you know, hold down a career in my 20s and start, you know, finding my vocation. I got into the fitness world as a personal trainer in my in my early 20s and by my mid-20s, I was doing really well. Had a had five personal training studios and sold them by the time I was 29 years old. And, you know, wow, before the age of 30, I sold my first company, right? It wasn't anything major, five personal training gyms, but it was pretty amazing for me. I realized like, I think I'm that I would I would never want that to happen to anyone else. But what happened to me there, the ability to survive that, overcome that, to thrive from that, on the other side of that is a much better human. And then, since I was in the personal training space, I realized something different. That, you know, client comes in, they say, Hey, I'm 30, 40 pounds overweight. Typically, I would ask, well, when were you happy the last time you were happy? 10 years ago, before I had my babies. Or if it was a guy, usually it's like, well, when I was in university, I was happiest with my body. I had energy, I look good. I didn't, I wasn't shaped like a pear. I was shaped like, you know, this like Adonis. And so typically everyone had 30, 40 pounds to lose, right? And they wanted muscle to gain.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

And so what do you do? You adjust their nutrition, and then you get them on the weight room floor, and you start building and sculpting their bodies. And I realized as we use more weight for resistance, we develop our muscles. Uh Arnold Schwarzenegger did an amazing job explaining this in his documentary from his 1974 Olympia, Pumping Iron, great documentary. And he he said, he said, like an artist who uses clay to sculpt the human body, he goes, We bodybuilders use weights and resistance training to develop certain muscle parts, body parts, to sculpt our body. And I realized that, okay, well, if resistance is important to develop our bodies, and as we develop our muscle, our tendons and connective tissue like ligaments get stronger, and therefore the bones that they're connected to get more dense in minerals, right? So now we are fighting off osteoporosis, we are increasing our metabolism. We're able to shape and mold our body and increase our metabolism, therefore burn more fat. Well, if we need resistance to build our bodies, don't we also need resistance to become more emotionally and mentally tough?

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

And I realized that at that point in my mid-20s, when I had my gyms and I was, you know, doing personal training and I had other personal trainers working for me, and now I had a big cross-section of hundreds of people, men and women of all ages, getting results and then seeing them evolve, not just physically. But I remember a particular woman she would work out with us in my personal training gym three times a week, and then would come in the rest of the other days on her own and work out, just do exactly what her trainer taught her on her own, right? And one day, like maybe a year after her physical transformation, of just commenting, like, man, do you remember? Like, I'm looking at your chart, you you went from like almost 50%, like she was a 44% body fat to now you're in your like high teens, you know, 17, 18%. Like, do you realize how much life you've added to your? She goes, Do you realize what you guys have done for me? I was like, Well, you know, we help people lose weight and build muscle. She goes, No, no, no. I left an abusive marriage because of this.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

A physically and emotionally abusive marriage she left. And I remember talking to so many people over the years that as they developed this ability to become more resilient and push through, the hard work that shapes their body also shapes their mind mentally, emotionally. And they're able to make that tough decision to leave an abusive relationship or to take that, develop enough confidence to go, I'm gonna take that risk and start that business that I finally thought about. I can't tell you how many people have told me, like, I finally made that leap of faith. Yeah, and I'm stopping, you know, working for someone else. Right? I mean, you're a great example of that. And and and instead, I'm gonna build my own company and I'm gonna live my dream. And I realized that we do need adversity, tough things to happen to us. And so that's then I started to study the idea of reframing. How beautiful is it that we can reframe things and go, ah, what happened to me, again, I would not ever wish that on anybody, but what happened to me as I reframe it, there's a superpower to be gained from every bad and negative thing that happened to us.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. And first, thank you for sharing your background. I know, I know as someone that's been through a lot, you kind of place yourself as you hear, and then the experience of the things you went through kind of to the side, and you use it as it's almost like you step out of that experience to teach the lessons. And I learned that same lesson very young. Um, I always prefaced the same thing of I wouldn't be who I am today if not for what I went through, but I would never wish it upon anybody. But it was a gift.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

And when I was, gosh, when I was 15 years old, you know, I I had come from an abusive household. My mom was emotionally and psychologically very abusive, and every single relationship I ever witnessed was abusive. My mom was in several, my dad was in one. There was a lot of anger in the home. When I was 15, I was a severe drug addict. I was on, you know, cocaine, ketamine, MDMA, speed. I was smoking, I was doing methadrone. And when I was 15 still, um, my dad had kicked me out, my mom had kicked me out, I'd failed all my courses in school. And 16, oh no, sorry, I was 16 when I was kicked out. And then I remember I was away one day and I was looking in the mirror, and I was in this little caravan. I was looking in the mirror and my nose is bleeding and I'm shaking and I'm covered in my own sick. And I realized, oh, this is it. You know, I'm 16 years old, and there is no escaping this. Either I die or I get out of this hole. And, you know, my my dad was caught up in his his bad relationship, and my mum was she was an alcoholic, and we don't communicate, we don't have any contact. And I learned in sync or swim, there is nobody that is gonna hold out a hand. And when I I tried to ask for help, it was always brushed off. And you know, even when I was 16, I had I tried to commit suicide, and my mum found out and she said she did it for attention and she never addressed it. So I learned, okay, it's me. It is me against the world. So I stopped doing every drug. I asked my dad if I could come back home. And but just before that, I had I'd managed to get back into school. They wouldn't let me redo the year because they didn't want me for two years. So they let me do everything at once. Double the amount of lessons, double the amount of exams. I did it. Got rid of every friend I had. I pulled myself out of it, got back home, got 100% in my psychology exams. I did extra projects, I got myself to university, and I was like, okay, I'm doing life alone. I I clean up everything, it's me against the world. And then I got into a relationship, and I thought, okay, maybe there's some safety here. And then that um ended up uh a bad relationship. I I ended up, I was raped, and I learned again, okay, it is me against the world. There is no safety in this. So it was kind of one thing after the next. And then when I almost lost my dad, he had a couple strokes or had a stroke and a seizure. It was always me having to pull myself through. And when I started to learn psychology, my family would turn to me for support, for help. When I started to do well in business, people would turn to me for advice. So it was, I was everybody's rock. I was everybody's safety. There was not a safe person in the world for me. I love my dad. My dad is my whole world now, but he feels so guilty for how I grew up, for the fact that it was I was a kid, and you know, a 16-year-old kid tries to commit suicide, is covered in their own blood, and you say you're doing it for attention. Give that kid attention, you know, and nobody, not a single person said to me, Why are you doing drugs? It was just, you're a mess. Get out. You know, a healthy kid doesn't just start doing drugs. You know, I was I was struggling with my mental health, I was struggling with my body, I was being bullied, I was lost. And I just needed a hand. Nobody handed one to me. And I learned I have to fight. I have to get up. No matter what life throws at me, I get up. And now you could put me in any situation, I'm gonna come out on top. There is nothing that I can't get through. And I I can stand my ground on that. There's nothing that I can't get through. And if I'm in a room and there's something that I want, someone else wants it, my superpower is I'll do whatever it takes. I will work harder than everyone in that room. And if I didn't get it, it's because I didn't deserve it. So what do I need to do next? And my dad feels guilty for the way that I grew up. But I always say to him, I'm grateful. I'm grateful you didn't help me. I'm grateful that nobody came to save me. Because I learned that I have to keep going, I have to just keep pushing. And I don't wish that upon anybody else, but it also gave me my purpose because now I educate and I teach so that people learn to control their emotions. People learn how to understand why they do the things they do. Because when I was pulling myself out of it and I had nobody to say this is what you do, I turned to the science. I started reading books, I started reading literature, I started trying to learn, okay, why am I doing what I'm doing? How do I be different? How do I be better? How do I change? So by 16, I was a drug addict. By 23, I was a professor. I got myself to university, I skipped my master's, I got a scholarship for a PhD, I started training the Secret Service when I was 27. I would not be where I am today, especially not so young, if I didn't learn to fight for the things that I want. But it also taught me with the physical side too. If I have a goal, if I have a weight goal or whatever it is I want to achieve, I know that it's going to feel horrible to get it. But if I want it, I have to go through that. And it's the same in in my relationship now too. If you have something you want, you have to fight to protect it. So that thing in me, I've used it across my life of if there's something I want, whether it's a relationship, whether it's a job, whether it's whatever it is, if I want that, I have to fight for it and I have to protect it because people will try and take it and nobody's gonna help me.

unknown 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

This is a testament to what you're saying, is such a powerful testament to something that many people have probably never heard this term, but it's post-traumatic growth. I'm sure you're aware of it. We all hear about, especially since our the world's been in this battle against global terrorism for the last 20 years, we hear about PTSD, right? Post-traumatic stress disorder. But rarely do people hear about post-traumatic stress growth. Yeah. And we started to see it so much as our military men and women were coming out of this global war on terror. And obviously, so many dealt with PTSD and they needed therapy, and some turned to alcohol, drugs, other turned to therapy, some, you know, unfortunately took their own lives. Uh, I have so many friends who are former military, and I think the number is 22 um former military um folks commit suicide every day. 22 a day. That's a that's an unfortunate number. But no one addressed the gosh, who are these guys and gals coming out and they're just thriving.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

They're thriving. They've seen battle, they've seen horrendous stuff, yet they're thriving. Their thermostat to deal with adversity is set differently. Like, what is different until studies started to come out that they were able to reframe, there's something so powerful about reframing what you see, what you experience, whether it's molestation, abuse, rape, death in battle, that you can go, holy smokes, if I can thrive despite that. Yeah, if I could grow and show gratitude that while this happened to me, I could have gone down the path of drug abuse and alcohol abuse, and maybe eventually taking my own life, that that if I can learn to cope with this and heal from it, I can become a better person and use that as a story to help others heal and not to use that as an excuse to either repeat the cycle or to end their lives. There's something powerful about post-traumatic growth.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I don't know where it comes from. I don't know if it's factory installed where some people will experience adversity and then they come out stronger and better, versus some people experience sadness and adversity and come out defeated. I don't know where post-traumatic growth comes from. I don't know, maybe you do, uh, but it as I the more I hear about it and and research about it, it's such a powerful, beautiful thing. And it's all a byproduct of reframing that what happened to me doesn't make me a victim, but what happened to me can be a superpower so long as I'm willing to heal from it and then move forward and teach others from it. Because oftentimes we're not the only ones that have gone through whatever the thing is, right? Whether it's drug use as a as a teenager, whether it's you know, being being sexually abused, physically abused, you know, seeing horrendous stuff in combat, others have gone through it. So if we could be the ones that decide to heal and then serve others as a byproduct, like what a gift.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah, and that's the thing. People see things on both extremes of either every Everything is terrible. I'm a victim. I'll never get out. Or on the other side, which I think is just as toxic, everything's great. You know, everything, there's a silver lining everywhere. Everything is positive. Everything happens for a reason. And both are just as bad. And it is okay to say there's a middle ground. This awful thing happened. This terrible thing happened. And I am shattered from it. But I can grow from it. That doesn't mean it was good. I still wish it didn't happen. A lot of the things I went through, like I said, I'd never wish that on anybody else. And it still tears my heart out sometimes when I think about the fact of, oh, I lived through that. And, you know, I was thinking about happiness recently, and I realized that I'm so happy that I almost can't put myself back in the place of where I used to be. But before two years ago, I didn't even know what happiness was. And that, I don't need to turn that into a positive. That's sad. And no kid should have to go through that. But I'm still grateful for the lesson. And if we can do that, like you said, frame and think, what is the lesson here? For me, my lesson was accountability that no one's going to do it for me. And I chose to do drugs. I chose that escape for my mental health. I chose to put myself in an unsafe situation. I chose to go out drinking instead of studying. That's why I failed college. And then I chose to change. But it was my choice. And I had to, when I was looking in the mirror, it wasn't okay who's going to pull me out of this. It was, I have to realize I did those things. I need to do something different. And a lot of that, too, is accepting that other people don't need to forgive you. We think that when we change, when we grow and we start doing these things, everybody has to, you know, rebuild that bridge with us. Some people, they don't want to have you in their life. That's okay. That's their choice. You have to take accountability for your actions and the consequences. For me, that was my biggest lesson. What do you think was your biggest lesson from your adversity?

SPEAKER_00 46:21

I think for me, my biggest lesson was because I do have to be honest about it. And I don't want anyone to think, as they're watching or listening to this, to think that, well, gosh, okay, I've I've been abused, I've had a tough upbringing, whether it's drugs, alcohol, abuse, that now there's some kind of amazing life on the other side. There is an amazing life on the other side, but there's also the demons that haunt me. Like, you know, there's also the demons that haunt me, and I have to share that. But the amazing life on the other side came 13 years ago for me now when I want to say I was forced because I didn't voluntarily go to a therapist. I did, but it's because 13 years ago I had a panic attack so devastating. I didn't realize it was a panic attack. I thought I was having a heart attack. So I was 38 years old, and I go, holy crap, I'm dying right now. What I thought was a heart attack. My chest was tight, my arms were tingling, shortness of breath, tunnel vision. I'm just hyperventilating and sweating profusely. And I'm thinking, this is it, this is a heart attack. And of course, uh, as it kind of washed over me, and I felt like I survived a heart attack. I went to the doctor the next day. I'm like, hey, I think I had a heart attack yesterday. And he goes, What do you mean? So yeah, this is what happened to me. They did the whole test and said, No, no, you're you're you're fine. Have you been stressed? Well, yeah, I've been stressed. Have you been anxious? Yeah, I've been anxious. He goes, You had a panic attack. Holy crap, well, I never want to have that again. It was so awful. Like it was awful. Like if if death could come alive, that's what death was in a living form. And so immediately I asked the doctor, Well, what's my answer? And what do Western doctors do? They want to prescribe something. So he puts me on Xanax, right? He put me on Xanax, and four or five days on Xanax, I remember feeling zero anxiety, zero stress, but I also had zero agency and desire to work. And I realized, like, okay, I'm just now in the process of launching my businesses. I have a feeling if I stay on Xanax long enough, I'm gonna go bankrupt because I got no desire to work, no desire to be creative. And so I called the doctor back up. Hey, do you have another drug that doesn't make me so lethargic? He said, No, unfortunately not. Have you tried talk therapy? And um, I said, talk therapy, isn't that for broken people? Like people that have psychological problems, people that have issues. Now keep in mind, I was molested as a boy, as I said. My dad, who I love to pieces, he's 91 years old, he was very heavy-handed, you know, former communist, very angry man, beat the shit out of me when I was a kid, to the point where my mom had to jump between us to rip us apart, right? And it wasn't like I was fighting, he just wouldn't let me go. And and I share this with you because I never looked at any of that as abuse. I just figured, oh, I put it in a box and I put it away, I'm fine. And so, because I didn't obviously want to deal with the stress and anxiety, and I didn't want to be on Xanax, the doctor goes, no, no, no, you know, a good therapist might be able to give you some tools to help you deal with your anxiety and stress. So I went and found a good therapist, and within three or four weeks, he gave me some great tools on dealing and coping with anxiety and stress. And to his credit, it's like 80% by the by the by the third or fourth week, I had 80% less anxiety on an average working day. And of course, being a type A person, I his name is Kevin. I said, Hey, Dr. Kevin, um, listen, I think I'm good. We've had four sessions, you've given me a lot of tools. I feel amazing. These tools will help me. This is gonna be my last session. And he said, Well, before you leave, um how's your childhood? Did you want to talk about your childhood? Did you want to talk about your parents? He goes, and I jokingly said, Well, look, I've told you that my come from I come from Armenia, my parents are former communists, my dad was pretty heavy-handed. I go, you know, he he beat me a lot. But Kevin, quite honestly, what happened to me uh as a kid was even worse than the beatings my dad gave me. In those four weeks, Abby, he built such rapport with me, Kevin did, my therapist, that for the first time ever in my life, I told someone, I hinted to someone that what had happened to me in Armenia was worse than the beatings that my dad gave me. Now keep in mind, this is on the fourth session. I'm signing the credit card receipt. My last and final uh what I thought was gonna be my last and final receipt for Kevin. And he goes, Do you want to talk about it? And I just broke down crying.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

And that's where he asked me, you know, were you abused? And I nodded my head, yes, because I couldn't even talk. You know, were you sexually abused? Yes. That led to 15 more months of therapy with him, where the healing really started, where we unpacked this feeling of self-hate, rage. Why didn't anyone stop it? Um, I was I was just a little boy, and these older boys are doing this to me. Why didn't anyone in the community in in Yedevan where we lived stop it? Uh it's not like they knew, but as a boy, you start thinking about that. The the confusion, the shame that you feel. And I walked around in life all the way to 38 years old. And I realized it showed up in relationships, it showed up in my business partnerships, and it showed up in in I I would, I would, as a personal trainer, I would always get fit where I almost looked amazing, and then I would somehow self-sabotage it, right? And I looking back, now I realize what I was doing is the self-hate showing up and the unworthiness. And so while all these things, the abuse and the adversities in our life, can give us the superpowers, those superpowers are on the other side of the healing work we have to do.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

And those 15 months of healing work that I did, the fact that I could sit here on your podcast or I could get up on stage and talk about what happened to me and not feel any shame, any guilt, any because it wasn't my fault, is a byproduct of healing. So people that go, well, you know, geez, I guess I could reframe it and say that this what bad thing happened to me is a superpower. Yes, you can, but you gotta do the healing work. You can't just put it in a box and put it away because it will show up in those ugly moments when you're putting your fist through the wall or saying something that you can't take back and punching holes in your relationship fence that you can't mend.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, I think we could talk for days. I know I could keep interviewing it for hours. Um, but you know, everything you've said, it's such a nice way to round off of the reality of adversity is that it it can be a gift, but you have to heal it too. Yeah. And I I think that there's so many toxic notions of healing is sat under a tree with flowers growing and everything's wonderful. And actually, healing is pain. It is, and it's suffering, and it's again, it's hard work and it's feeling lost and alone and desperate and keeping going because you know you deserve that happiness on the other side. Bedros, it has been such a pleasure having you here. Thank you. Um, thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Appreciate it.